now, 1 p.m. have a fantastic weekend, everybody. neil: let it be known this is the week the president tried to become a dictator. i know, i know, it sounds crazy, and, man, do i hope i'm wrong, but this is the week i discovered a president who sized up an opposition party that was very weak. this was the week that barack obama came in peace to rip our constitution to pieces. welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto, and i know, i know, i know what you're thinking, neil's lost. you might be right on that, but i know i'm not wrong, not one bit. now, again, i know that sounds mad, but a lot of folks are mad, very mad at a president increasingly willing to bypass congress and bypass something else, the constitution, to get what he wants whenever he wants it and get it fast. just read this week's i'll call

'em takeover tea leaves. vice president joe biden saying the president is exploring executive orders to combat gun violence to, essentially, confiscate guns. the second amendment be damned. the same president we're told now considering executive actions to enact climate change measures, those opposed be damned. and timely to this whole debt debate going on in washington, the same president who supported saying the constitution allows him to raise the debt ceiling on his own, again, congress be damned. add it up, i'm telling you, barack obama is doubling down. and here's the kicker. with plenty of compliant democrats in congress to help. but those democrats might regret what they're aiding and abetting, because they're the ones who'll be fumbling and fuming. when nancy pelosi pushes the 14th amendment to give the power to bypass congress, she is giving him the power to bypass her too. you don't need a trillion dollar magic coin to realize this is nothing less than a high stakes

power grab. now, it's not unusual for presidents of either party to try. it is very unusual for so many in both parts to lay down and let him do it. all right, here to hash it out, constitutional expert ilya shapiro and sabrina schafer as well as "the wall street journal"'s steve moore. steve, a disturbing series of events, to put it mildly. >> no question about it, neil. and, look, we have a three-branch system of government in washington. the president is the chief of the executive branch, that means the president doesn't make the laws, he executes the laws that congress passes. and, you know, i'm in austin, texas, today. here in texas everybody's been talking about this. what is with all these executive orders? what gives the president the authority to do this? and the one that, you know, i'm most interested in, obviously, is whether the president will try to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling without approval of

congress. and that is the scuttlebutt right now in washington, that the president is simply going to do it whether congress authorizes that extension or not. neil: you know, sabrina, it's odd that this is occurring the same week we saw the movie "lincoln" honored with 12 oscar nods. of course, a lot of people point to the fact that abraham lincoln, you know, habeas corpus went way after and way beyond what constitutional powers he was granted, and critics say this president is, essentially, doing the same. i always remind people with this flippant comment, i knew abraham lincoln. abraham lincoln was kind of an historical friend of mine. this guy's no abraham lincoln, nor are the circumstances the same. what do you say? >> you're exactly right. the difference is abraham lincoln had his priorities in order, and one of the real problems with president obama is his priorities seem to be a mess. instead of talking about spending control, we're talking about gun control. instead of talking about solid, long-term economic solutions to

help turn around the economy, we're talking about minting a trillion dollar coin. this is a president who seems to be sort of thumbing his nose at what really needs to be done in this next term. i mean, instead he's doing a power grab to secure his legacy. neil: you know, ilya, he's not the first president to try to go beyond an election and take what was a victory if terms of a -- in terms of a striking mandate. fdr did it, richard nixon tried it, george bush in his re-election tried it. are there differences here? anything noteworthy here? i mean, obviously, he's trying to get past a resistant congress to a lot of his proposals, and this stymying of a lot of his proposals. are you worried about the way he's doing it? >> well, of course, i'm worried about it. this is why we have three branches of government. any president of any party at any time is going to try to expand his powers. the nature of any public official whether you're a low-level bureaucrat or the president to do so. but we have in our

constitutional system checks and balances both horizontally in terms of congress and the federal judiciary and vertically with federalism. and if courts enforce those structural protections for our liberties, then we'll be a lot better off. neil: you know, i was just thinking, sabrina, know, of bill clinton when he knew he would be challenged on some of the executive orders he gave and executive actions he took, he was quite aware of the distinct possibility that courts would overturn him, which many of them they did. but the damage was done, and he got what he wanted originally, and to undo it easier said than done after the fact. is this this president's strategy as well? >> i'm wondererring if he just feels extra confident. a lot of people thought obamacare would be overturned, and it was not. neil: true, true. >> here we are seeing the debris that's left in its wake, and it's not good for the economy or people's liberty liberty. so i think this is a president who has a lot of extra confidence. i'm just thankful someone like

yourself is actually talking about this because really the conversation all this week has not been about this power grab or executive orders, but about a gender imbalance in the second-cabinet. how unimportant when you consider what we're talking about here. neil: yeah, you know, these executive orderlies could be piling up -- orders could be piling up like planes at laguardia. and i'm wondering what happens. once the president issues the order, you do it. you do what he says and departments operate accordingly. it could be months if not years later before they're overturned f they're overturned. so what are you envisioning in this term? >> okay. so here's the problem. i mean, we've been rightfully critical of the president for this power grab, but let me say this, that i think also at fault here are the court systems and the congress. if the president is encroaching -- which this president is doing -- on the legislative affairs of the duties of congress, then it is

incumbent on congress to assert its authority. and, now, a lot of -- neil: how do they do that? do they go to the court? what do they do? they're not doing it. >> you were talking about executive orders, but t's talk about a lot of these regulations, for example, on climate change. the congress when it passes these appropriations bills, for example, the money that funds the epa can put language in appropriations bills saying, look, none of this money shall be used for climate change or whatever it might be. so i fault congress as well with. even the republicans. if they are concerned about this, which they say they are, they have to get tough with this president in the way they deal with him and spend money and give agencies money. neil: ilya, it seems like the administration wants its cake and eat it too. i mean, it can use the 14th amendmento force executive privilege on just going ahead and raising the debt ceiling, but ignore the 2nd amendment and confiscate people's guns. i'm being a little flippant, but

to make the point that they pick and choose their battles and the appropriate ammunition. >> sure. it reminds me of a new york times op-ed from last week saying we should throw out the constitution, oh, except for these parts i like. neil: that's right. very good point. >> and the thing is even if i just said that all presidents have tried to expand their own powers, what is unique to this one is just the amount of government by regulation by these administrative agencies that are seemingly unaccountable to anyon i just saw a front page article in "the washington post" earlier this week how the last congress was the most unproductive, they didn't pass as many laws -- that's probably a good thing they're not passing laws -- but the agenciehave been the most productive in history. exponentially, every two or four years the federal code grows exponentially, and that's really where much of the government is done now whether we're talking environmental regulation or whether we're now going to be talking about gun confiscation. neil: you know, brina -- >> you know, neil?

neil: go ahead, steve. >> i having? about this 14th amendment issue because this is actually gaining currency, no pun intended, with respect to many people on the left saying the president has a unilateral power to raise the debt ceiling, and that is craziness. if you look at the 14th amendment, it says the full faith and credit of the u.s. debt will be honored. and, of course, it will be even if we don't pass a debt ceiling on time because the first thing that gets paid, you and i have talked about this many times, the first thing that gets paid -- neil: well, the lawyers argued that out in court, and that's what gets ridiculous. but, you know, sabrina, here's what worries me. we've already soon an effective strategy on the part of the white house to marginalize the republican house and make it sort of like the last part of the negotiating process on the cliff deal where it was take it or leave it, and you're going to look like obstructionists if you just leave it. so the house cowered and went ahead and accepted a deal. but they discovered a wisdom in that strategy to not only push the house aside, but maybe bypass it entirely.

and i think that's a growing trend. what do we do? what do we say to follow be up on it? -- to follow up on it? >> again, i do think the sort of growth of this administrative state is what we're all concerned about. look, i just went through the process of trying to navigate the fda's prior tification system. it was a nightmare. and now we're watching what's happening with the consumer regulatory agency and housing regulations and what that's going to mean for banks and for consumers. i think all of this so much is happening behind people's -- you know, people are seeing. we're not hearing what's going on between the lines, if you will. and, again, the onus is on congress to write these laws in a way that the courts don't have to read in between the laws and that limits the amount of power these regulatory agencies actually have. neil: well, the agencies are the ones calling the shots as you folks pointed out. thank you all very, very much. um, we'll try to keep the country together n. the meantime, you all know superheroes by now, right?

th one, yours truly, fighting for truth, justice and the american way out of all of this spending. well, there's a new superhero and she -- that's right, she -- is not a fan of your saintly spandexed superstar, and she is hot on many my trail because something i said has her hot and bothered, and it's not just the sight of me in this incredibly form-fitting suit. you will never guess what's got this crusader's cape in a knot. i will give you a hint, i think it's something to do with this bizarre image of jerusalem today. snow in jerusalem. and i'm not snowing it. though i will tell you this though i will tell you this caped chall look, if you have copd like me, you know it can be hard to breathe, and how that feels.

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nothing. are you stealing our daughter's school supplies and taking them to work? no, i was just looking for my stapler and my... this thing. i save money by using fedex ground and buy my own supplies. that's a great idea. i'm going to go... we got clients in today. [ male announcer ] save on ground shipping at fedex office. neil: well, don't look now, america, but there is a new crusader tugging at my cape, and she ain't happy. not with my physique, as if.

[laughter] i'm heroically trying to rein in -- no, no, no, she wants to pile on. it's true. the united states government is funding a video game that features a female superhero fighting glal warming and pushing for more out-of-this-galaxy bucks that it will take to wage this fight. you've got more than just me standing in your free-spending way. [laughter] look who i have here. you've got no less than wonder woman melissa francis. [laughter] she's actually sitting right now in your way. yep, the mighty melissa, former child actor star who knew michael landon personally, basked in the love and glow of millions of viewers internationally, not to mention a bursting trust fund before she even had braces. a woman who did more in her life before going on to harvard and becoming a business geek then realizing she had to be a business anchor tv geek, unfortunately at the wrong

network, later becoming an even bigger business geek at, finally, the right network. a tv star who speaks of money as easily as i do, a woman who has done more to speak of the virtues of capitalism in one lifetime than any hastily-sketched washington common creeton could in five lifetimes. i bring in now, the superhero who not only combats global warming as a crutch, melissa creates global warming just flying over and ogling pan kind below. wonder woman. -- man kind. i think that's the best intro ever. >> ever. um, i wish my thighs looked like that. um -- neil: i wish that illustration looked like me. what do you think of this? they're actually doing this to sort of make heroic. at least you look more like a superhero. >> i love it. neil: i'm getting our graphics -- >> did you make one of those big

enough for me to take home? neil: your next appearance -- >> fabulous. neil: well, we're going to leave that alone. all right, so, this government tack to try to make spending, i guess, heroic -- >> no, i mean, we are having a lot of fun here, and i wish this were a joke. neil: well, i am. >> they are really giving a prize to somebody who wrote a video game, you know, and they're debuting it on women's, national women's day, international women's day. neil: that's right. >> and this, you know, hero is going to come out, and she attacks global warming. and it's $100,000 grant for the people who went ahead and did it, and this is our taxpayer dollars hard at work, which is appalling to me. i'm wondering, do these people know we're broke? i mean, have they looked at the budget lately? neil: we know where they stand on the global warming debate. that doesn't shock me. but then to put our or money on it and using a character to sell it and push it, it is a little obsessive. >> sell it to our cildren. i'm just wonder, maybe the superhero could come in and balance the budget.

maybe the superhero could come in and do some math, teach our kids some math. maybe she could teach our kids how to, you know, write a computer program. there's a million things it could do. neil: this was the week if you think about it, melissa, right, we had all these, you know, heroic feats like a trillion dollar coin -- >> right. neil: -- the 14th amendment, to avoid the underlying problem: spending. >> right. neil: and addressing it. it is weird. >> it is weird with. they're totally ignoring it. but i'm actually serious about the video game. they're trying to shove global warming down our throat and make all our kids environmentalists. that's well and good. why don't we teach them math? teach them how to balance their checkbook? why don't we have her come down and frack our way to energy infence? we could be doing neutral things that would actually educate them, or we could -- neil: you could actually have them start with congress on that. >> yeah. neil: and then work their way to

the american public. >> that's right. [laughter] neil: 100,000 or no, you've got to have kind of misplaced priorities to even entertain something like this in an environment like this. i mean, the whole capital system is burning that they've got control over, and they're doing something goofy like this. >> well, it was the national endowment from the arts, just in case everybody's wondering, that's who's behind this. collected the taxpayer money together and sat down and thought about how should we pirg out how to bestow this upon, you know, worthy folks -- neil: it's clearly aimed at the young. >> oh, yeah. i guess, they want to insure that it's a built-in base of supporters going forward. neil: but the idea being you need more money to fix this problem with money you say we don't have. >> right. we're absolutely broke, but we're going to train kids that they should be battling big oil more than anything else. before you learn how to do math, before you learn how to read, before you learn how to balance

your own checkbook, before you learn how to balance the country's checkbook -- which, i admit, is near hi impossible at this -- nearly impossible at this point -- instead let's go out and there and become a female caped crusader -- neil: as if you and i don't have enough to do. i mean, we're busy. >> so busy. neil: but, look, melissa and i want to save the world. >> march 8th, international women's day. get ready to see this money given out. neil: what's going to happen on that day? all of you run up and do a helen reddy deal? >> actually, i like the sound of that. uld you join us? would you come out and join us? neil: i'd watch. >> salute women? yes? all right. neil: melissa, thank you very much. you will always be a wonder to us. our wonder woman. >> that was an interesting segment. neil: this is the first time i've heard melissa say, you know, i'm rethinking the big move here. [laughter] in the meantime, stick a needle

in it. if this flu epidemic keeps up, this recovery's going to get sick. if it copes up a it's the little things in life that make me smile. spending the day with my niece. i don't use super poligrip for hold because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. th just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip.

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neil: tax hikes you canning in, job cuts, well with, piling up. the president claiming we really don't have a spending problem in this country. what a week. now the flu is threatening to make an already-sick economy even weaker. we've got business owner, toma here on the medical and financial hit respectively. doctor, to you first. how bad does this get? >> this bug is going to cost big bucks. the last time we had a flu epidemic like this it cost us about $100 million in lost days, $7 billion in lost compensaon, and the cdc is projecting that

just the direct medical costs alone from this flu epidemic could cost over $10 billion. neil: all right, you're talking about the center or fo disease control. but i want to know, why is it so bad, doctor? why is it as bad as it is? are these shots not working? is it a different strain of flu that's grown? >> yeah, couple of things. this particular flu strain, h3n2, is associated with more complications than previous strains of the flu. sometimes people who initially have flu symptoms and then actually get worse a couple of days later may have a superimposed bacterial infection. the second reason is that even though there is, you know, relative availability of the flu shot, there's still about only 46% of the people that actually got this shot. so there's, obviously, a huge number of people out there that have yet to actually get the flu shot. it's not too late. it takes a couple of weeks still to kick in.

neil: yeah. >> but these are the things that really have a big impact in terms of how early and how significant this epidemic is. neil: you know, what do people do? i imagine establishments that have people where a lot of people go -- restaurants, theaters -- people might be a little more averse to going there, and it cascades. are you noticing, seeing, reporting? >> well, in our hotels we're noticing some dropoff in groups that are coming in, corporate groups, and in some of my retail establishment, i notice some people are coming in -- i have a cigar store -- they're not hanging around in the lounge to smoke them, they're rushing out. so we've spent a lot of time being concerned about, you know, not being, letting the contagious disease spread birdies infecting everything we can in the hotel constantly; water fountains, handles.

neil: what do you tell your people, it's a mixed bag, some of them are afraid to come into work, but, obviously, they sicken more people if they're sick, it's a double-edged sword. what is your advice to your staff? >> we advise our staff that if they feel like they're sick, to stay home. neil: all right. doctor, not everyone, not everyone is seizing on that, though, right? a lot of people are afraid for their own job security. so, doctor, what do you tell people? put the job security to the side? what? >> yeah. i think that, i tell them about the three hs. the first is hand washing. i think, you know, the remarkable statistic is we touch our face about a couple of hundred times a day, and that's how the germs spread. the second is -- the first h is hand washing, the second h is stay home. and the third h is hydrate. keep drinking. and the fourth h is don't, you know, don't shake your hands. you know, i've been traveling a

lot, as i'm sure you do, neil, and, you know, the hygiene on escalators and in airplanes is horrendous. that's where the germs are spreading in these large crowds where the conditions are really horrible. so staying home, um, is really key because, you know, as we all know as employers and otherwise, this'll spread fast. neil: is that a good policy, toma? you hear a lot of business guys saying you can skip the handshake now, just nod when you come in or a business acquaintance comes in. has it gotten that bad? >> yeah, we actually in some of our hotels the staff instead of shaking hands, they'll do a fist bump. [laughter] neil: well, that's probably a good attitude to have. >> and we're encouraging all of our managers and as many people as possible to get flu shots now if they haven't gotten 'em. we saw a piece on your sister station, fox news, monday, and we pulled the clip out.

dr. siegel giving megyn kelly a flu shot on air, and we said if it's good enough for network personnel, it's good enough for our people to continue to get flu shots now. neil: i wanted to have dr. siegel on and give him the flu shot -- gras yeah, he tried to give it to varney this morning, but varney said he didn't want one. neil: yeah. the doctor's kind of a slippery character in that regard. gentlemen, thank you both very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. neil: well, get ready for something very, very scary. [laughter] no, not exactly that new comedy poking fun at horror flicks, but the real horror show; what we're till paying. till paying. still paying.

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sion expanding to a 5-inch 1080p hd display and camera. touch acquiring nfc. hearing evolving with beats audio. wireless charging activated. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. neil: all right. forget the gift that keeps giving, think more like

solyndra, well, the score that keeps growing. years after the best solar panel maker federal money could buy turned into the biggest disaster green technology ever knew, it lives, solyndra lives. to keep sucking up still more taxpayer dough. they already know about the $535 million in federal loan guarantees for this bankrupt company. now the government's spending another $2.5 million -- well, that's just cleaning up the mess. and it goes on and on. charles payne is looking for a stake to ram in this thing's heart once and for all. it's amazing. >> and this is the ultimate bad penny, you just can't get rid of this thing. here's another thing, neil. because the private investors got this sweetheart deal, this could cost us another $350 million. neil: wow. how does that calculate? >> because if they take a loss, the taxpayers have to make them whole. neil: oh, that's right. they can write it off. >> we're talking about this maybe going up to $900 million

when the tally stops. 14 million to retrain a few people. hey, it's just -- neil: how long does it take to shut a company down? i mean, this wasn't an excessively large -- >> it wasn't large, but they had assetted, they had technology, you know, they've got to auction things off. it could be a relatively -- neil: and we foot the bill as long as that's going. >> absolutely. the money you just talked about, one of the companies got something for automated litigation support service, and no one knows what that means. [laughter] but, you know, they got a couple hundred grand for it, and no one's really sure exactly what that means. and lazard got a nice contract, it's just crazy. neil: you know, i was thinking, if that's what we've uncovered with solyndra, and this is part of process you go through to terminate and cut lines with a company that's gone bankrupt or failed outright, my gosh, i mean, this is just like a spit in the ocean. >> it is a spit in the ocean, and i think we should do these

kind of sries because politicians, you know, try to write this off as, you know, sort of -- well, it's part of taking a loss. neil: yeah. >> it's part of the investment process. neil: well, you probably know this better than i do, charles, but the administration has always argued our successes are much greater and bigger than our failures. is that true? >> i don't know what they're talking about. neil: i don't see it. >> you know, they've -- neil: because then i would know. point me to that big success that dwarfs solyndra. >> maybe you can talk about the microwave oven and tg when it comes to the space industry. the fact of the matter is this whole thing is a smoke screen. since 2009 there's been almost $17 billion doled out for these sort of projects -- neil: to say nothing what was in the cliff deal, say anything -- nothing of what's in the so-called sandy aid. >> apparently, that's what the americans wanted after the november election. but the point i was going the make is ott of that almost -- out of that almost $17 billion,

70% of that went to ge, those kind of companies. google, google got a bunch of money from american tax bayers, they've got a carbon foot print out of world, but we're paying for it. it's just nuts. peel nl you're not a fan of the governnt fostering any industry then? i mean, the argument for this, charles, at the beginning was, well, the chinese are doing it in hyperspeed, india completely finances its green industry, um, they're booming. we can't let them outboom us, so we have to invest in this before they wipe us out. your thought on that? >> it's -- we're talking -- imagine if you had a replacement for fossil fuels. what is that, a trillion dollar industry? believe me, enough capitalists out there who would love to have a piece of that action. we do not need the government in the way trying to compete for capital, personnel, and we certainly don't need them mucking this stuff up, which is exactly what they've done. neil: all right. i'll put you down as a no.

[laughter] charles payne, good to see you. one of the smartest business guys i know, and a nice guy. it alters, depending on the day. anyway, you know this whole dreamliner thing is getting bad. the government is on the case, the same goth that okayed -- government that okayed this bird might leave you wanting to shoot them a bird. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic

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>> now, from day one we have worked with boeing to certify these systems and to further insure that this innovative aircraft meets our high level of safety for the flying public. we believe this is a safe aircraft. neil: well, that makes me feel better. the head of the faa saying that boeing's 787 dreamliner is still safe. this'll make you feel even safer, the faa is now investigating boeing's jumbo

jet. this week alone, four critical incidents causing flight delays or cancellations. the government watchdog ron meyer says don't just blame boeing, blame the guys who gave it the green light to get this thing off the ground. it is interesting. i mean, it's not as if boeing went into this blindly. this thing was strictly monitored by the government and okayed by the government. >> neil, these guys are geniuses, i tell ya. after a plane catches fire and a window cracked -- that they missed, they said this plane was great. after the fact when there's problems, they go and say, huh, there's a fire there, you should probably fix that. neil: i don't think that's good. that's a problem. yeah. >> yeah. really, i can pay a first grader $100,000 a year like these guys are getting paid to say that. we have an expression for these people, and i can't say it exactly, but no duh, sherlock. of course, you need to fix the planes, but who has the lease to

do in? boeing does. they don't want to see their stock plummets, and god forbid their plane crashes. they'll have 300 huge lawsuits, huge wrongful deathlawsuits against them, and they don't want that. neil: you can see boeing, you can never sue the government. >> yeah. neil: in other words, it was the government that okayed the one that blew up in the gulf and became the bp nightmare. i'm not exonerating -- >> whoa, neil, they were patting themselves on the back. neil: so they were there okaying the very things that went bust, and afterwards trying to pat themselves on the back, as you said, for addressing the calamity after the fact. but it will be the companies involved if any disaster -- as, by the way, should probably be the case. but it is not as if the government gets off prix sort of being -- free sort of being a witness to a crime. >> this is captain obvious, so pathetic. maybe we should target people like this. the fact that we're paying these

guys thousands of doars a year to make these obvious observations is just so frustrating for e me especially when we're spending so much more than we're taking in. it's almost immoral. they made mistakes, why aren't they going after themselves? they're sitting here patting themselves on the back when they made the mistake. it's really sad when we need to regulate the regulators. the fact of the matter is, we should just toss them out. it's sad. neil: well, it was sort of like during the whole financial meltdown when it was congress at the time, as you and i can recall, that was aggressively going after the banks who were lending to anyone and everyone, and they overdid it. so they wanted them to rein that in. then they, i guess, reined it in too much, and they said, hey, you've got to go back to lending to everyone. again, i'm not being apologist for corporations that screw up, but i'm not just turning a blind eye to a government that countenances it. >> well, it's like this week like you said, the regulators came out and said banks shouldn't be giving out bad loans anymore.

well, thank you again. you guys were the ones who forced us there in the first place. iraq with fannie and freddie and government regulators saying housing's a great thing, and now after the fact it's like, oh, no, you guys can't do that, that was a bad decision. well, thank you for saying that -- neil: immediately after the first dreamliner problem, then the second one that the government was going to try to find a way around this to say, well, you know, it's a complicated plane, today might have taken some shortcuts. you outsourced a lot of this stuff. we didn't know that. >> if boeing messes up, shame on them. if the government messes up, shame on them as well.% i mean, it's ridiculous. neil: well, your a -- you're a very colorful dress. ron meyer, thank you for saving the more expletive language. do any of you remember hal from 2001? >> open the pod bay doors, hal. >> i'm sorry, dave, i'm afraid i

can't do that. neil: guess what? hal's buddies are in vegas, and they're going after you. so is your fork, so is your tv, so is your toothbrush. ♪ [ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

neil: all right, well, that big electronics show wrapping up in las vegas, and the push to make things all internet has a lot of critics already saying this show is about all intrusive. look at this fork, it vibrates when you should slow down. obviously, this is an item i will not be buying. then there's this tooth brush that monitors your brushing habits and stores the info on the web. katrina says these gadgets are

going to cost you your privacy. so you say we're overreacting. why? >> look, i think at this point in time we all have phones, tvs, cable boxes, ordering movies, hotel room orders, people already know a bunch of stuff about us even without us going into the home -- neil: so you just surrender that as a given? >> well, i learn from history. so it's a fact that that has already happened means when i do choose the devices that are going in my home, i'm getting more smart about the things that could happen and insuring that the appliances that i choose have those security measures built in -- neil: but how do you know they're not doing something that you don't know? >> here's the thing, lie's full of that. -- life's full of that. they can always do something they don't know. neil: what if you discover it after the fact, your toaster's been watching you? >> yeah, well -- [laughter] neil: mine does, i swear it. [laughter] >> look, i think the only antidote against that is going

into the mountains and having a cabin where, hell, someone still could be looking right into your window. i think at the end of the day -- neil: not a problem. katrina, you agree with that? >> well, to an extent, he's right. this is the way things are going. unfortunately, right now, neil, we do have an option the choose the toaster that monitors us or not. unfortunately, in the future there won't be an option. but let's recap -- neil: in other words, a toaster will be sold to us, and we're not told it has a feature that it can monitor us? >> well, that, or it'll be the only toaster that's made. neil: aha. >> think about it. it's more important, neil, because right now the government is listening to our phone calls, reading our e-mails, monitoring our diets and looking at our health records. neil noel whoever came up with this fork, i want to shove that in their heart. >> yeah. neil: but that is something that, you know, really to vida's point, that you would choose to get. so where do you draw the line,

katrina, between stuff that could be useful, beneficial to you and those that you have, want no part of? that's your choice, right? >> well, it is our choice, like i said, right now. but now that everything is being switched over from the analog age to the digital age, it's not going to be a choice. and that's what americans need to understand when they do purchase these products. because this is not just from your smartphone to your oven which i don't even know why you'd want to communicate with your obvious. this is two-way wireless technology which means the government can also access the appliances in many your home so that if you're washing your dishes at a time th's not optimal for water usage, guess what? it turns off. neil: yeah. but, you know, you're selling the talking oven short. mine many times will say do you really need this, neil? [laughter] um, vida, where are we going with this? scott mcnealy, sun microsystems, said if you value your privacy, just get over it. pretty much what you were saying at the outset, part of the

compromise and the swap with ease of life and all that is surrendering some privacy in life? >> there's trade-offs, right, with anything. and i think privacy is becoming e where technology's involved. i think, look, i think what katrina's saying makes a lot of sense. you've got on the vigilant, proactive, don't be stupid about the kind of things -- neil: but that assumes you could trust the purveyor of that product not to be doing thingsing he's not supposed to be doing. >> that's fair -- neil: like when you sell third party information to another party. >> it's an efficient market, right? i think as many pain points as there that you'll feel by using that appliance, there will be an antidote for that. for instance, microsoft started doing some funky stuff on the pc a while back. you had, you know, a ton of industry groups like a katrina step up and say, hey, stop making us report in to you when we do certain actions on the machine. and you know what? they responded. neil feel i never believe they honored that.

not microsoft, can we monitor you every morning? and i say, well, no. and i think they're still monitoring. >> right. you know, to a certain extent they could, but i think at the end of the day you have these checks and balances -- neil: you argue the checks and balances work. >> i think that we're aware of them, and that's half the battle. neil: katrina, you seem to have your doubts. >> no, no, no, the checks and balances clearly don't work. neil: how do you know? >> because look at the most basic example, facebook. we just had a couple of weeks ago the instagram privacy issue that popped up out of nowhere. here's the bottom line, neil -- neil: didn't that accidentally come up? >> accidentally. this is the stuff we know about. but at the end of the day, though these appliances might be smart and cool and hip, they will also be able to tell the authorities if you were truly, indeed, at home in bed asleep at the time of the murder. neil: well, there -- >> hey, is that such a bad thing? no, look, i think that --

neil: bad news for murderers. >> well, what are you going to do? the i thk with anything in this society, technology included, we have weapons that we have to use sort of selective application for. neil: but to her point, we do have a way -- not that we would deliberately start with, but let's say something did happen after you left this studio. obviously, we could collate a series of pictures of you walking down sixth avenue and put it together, he was here, then he gets to neil's show, so we could assemble all these data while these cameras were tracking you, let's say you went to a bank machine, whatever, and then use that information that was blindly assimilating all of this and put it together and almost indict you. >> yeah. and then we have our constitution that says that's not admissible. so i think that, you know, you always have an option -- >> but we've already scrapped the bill of rights. neil: i think we did already scrap that. >> you know, that's a bigger issue than this particular debate. i think if we don't trust the institutions to use the technology and the cay that

correctly -- data correctly, then we're hosed. neil: but, katrina, you this i we're hosed already. >> well, we are. like i said, they're already monitoring our e-mails, our health care records, our eating habits, our phones. i mean, this is already happening from the bush administration forward starting with the patriot act to the ndaa. people have got to rise up and say no. we have to draw the line -- neil: stick one of those forks in it, right? okay. guys, i wish we had more time. you were both great. i was hoping one of you would be really, really fat to talk about the fork thing. unfortunately, that did not end up being the case, but thank you both regardless. very good seeing you. >> thank you, neil. neil: how many did what they said this week and how many lied? i've added we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta®(eszopiclone) can lp you get there. like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake.

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